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Talk:James Johnson
Johnson had nothing to do with the Tanker Incident Sorry to disappoint you. Cheers! 11:52, May 25, 2010 (UTC) http://natmal.net/mgsdb/?enc&id=43 :I agree, he wasn't directly involved, he was simply a pawn. I never suggested he was responsible for the theft. Also, the US President is often called "Mr President" in real life, even Solidus is called this by Ocelot in MGS1. --Bluerock 12:46, May 25, 2010 (UTC) ::Yes, I know that. I live in Florida. And yes, you are suggesting he was the guy Ocelot was talking to. He was not. He was talking to The Patriots. It is made perfectly clear that Johnson was not involved when he talked to Raiden. If it wasn't Zero, it was another member of The Patriots. That much is certain.-- 13:43, May 25, 2010 (UTC) :::Sorry to butt-in, but I have an opinion about this too. Actually in the game and database, it is never specified who Ocelot was talking to. And obviously in isn`t "perfectly clear", or we wouldn't have this discussion. Now I personally believe that it is made intentionally unclear who he is refering to. But even though James Johnson was a pawn (and so was George Sears, and he orchestrated the Shadow Moses Incident and the Big Shell Incident), when Ocelot talked to "Mr President", it's possible that he may have been talking to the President (James Johnson). Besides, Johnson may have been following the Patriot's orders during the Tanker Incident. - Marcaurelix ::::It's not made clear that it's Johnson either. He never says that he was involved in the theft of Metal Gear Ray. All he says is that it was Ocelot who stole it. -- 14:22, May 25, 2010 (UTC) :::::That's why I left the trivia section ambigous and neutral. Due to the ambigousity of the game in general. Can you stop making insinuations about who stole the Metal Gear. BTW, our edit war is pointless. - Marcaurelix :::::Can you please stop complaining and move on. -- 14:32, May 25, 2010 (UTC) ::::::Now I seriously doubt that Ocelot was talking to Zero. - Marcaurelix :::::::And I seriously don't care what you think. It's either him or another member of The Patriots. Zero was the head of The Patriots and The Patriots were the ones who ruled the country, hence, Mister President. But I was kind enough to accept your version too. -- 14:32, May 25, 2010 (UTC) ::::::::I will concede that there was a posibility that he was talking to the Patriots themselves. Now, you were kind enough about what? When Ocelot was talking to a Mr. President, there is a slight posibility that he was talking to the Mr. President himself. Not only that, but the most obvious person to consider in that moment would be President Johnson himself. In fact, there is no evidence to the contrary. All you have are speculations. - Marcaurelix :Just out of interest, why don't you think he's actually reporting to Johnson? Is it due to the retcon of Ocelot being a founding member? --Bluerock 14:49, May 25, 2010 (UTC) ::Simple, the game and MGS4 database never state or imply that Johnson was involved in the Tanker incident but it is shown that The Patriots were the ones involved. As Johnson said, The Patriots were the ones who really ruled the country so it makes sense for Ocelot to call the person on the radio, "Mister President". -- 14:56, May 25, 2010 (UTC) :::He was talking to the Patriots. But it is unknown if it was directly or through the President (as like Mr. President). I'm just saying that you should discard the posibility that he was talking to Johnson, probably under the Patriot's orders. - Marcaurelix ::::And I'm saying that you shouldn't discard the possibility that it was Zero, one of the AIs or some other guy. By the way, are you French? -- 15:11, May 25, 2010 (UTC) :::::I think you meant "you shouldn't discard". And I don't. That's why I left it ambigous. That's why I say I don't know. BTW, I'm a Spaniard. - Marcaurelix ::::::I think you meant the same thing too. Also, I'm Puerto Rican myself. -- 15:29, May 25, 2010 (UTC) :::::::Zero was in hiding at the time. It couldn't have been him. It had to be one of the AIs. They had the ability to talk like humans as we saw at the end of Sons of Liberty. --Refan33 15:33, May 25, 2010 (UTC) :Actually, the game heavily suggests it is the US President, the conversation is meant to be similar to the one Ocelot had with the President at the end of MGS1, only this time around it is Johnson. He isn't named because he hadn't even been introduced at that point in the plot. Later retcons do not change anything about this conversation. Johnson was a willing servant of the Patriots at the time, so it is logical that those doing the Patriot's bidding report to him (their head pawn). Ocelot was a founding member, but he obviously has no say in the organization, since its now run by the AIs. :Since the conversation was a relatively minor thing within the whole of the Tanker Incident, I'm not surprised the database chose not to mention it; it's no true encyclopedia by any stretch, as we well know. --Bluerock 17:55, May 25, 2010 (UTC) ::I always figured he was talking to Solidus, referring to him as "Mr. President" purely out of respect. *shrug* --Fantomas 18:52, May 25, 2010 (UTC) :Probably a lot of people thought that (including me at first), unless they were listening carefully to the Marine Commandant's speech, where it's revealed that George Sears had resigned at this point. --Bluerock 19:01, May 25, 2010 (UTC) ::That and Otacon made it clear that Solidus was in hiding at the time. It wasn't him either. Anyway, Ocelot was clearly talking to The Patriots, not Johnson. The Patriots were the real rulers, hence, Mister President. Why Bluerock won't accept that is a mystery to me. Anyway, I give up. Forget I said anything. -- 22:10, May 25, 2010 (UTC) :::It's not clear who he was talking to at all, which is why several different opinions have been posted here about it, so don't go around pretending it is. --Fantomas 00:14, May 26, 2010 (UTC) :I don't understand why Anonymous thinks that "Mr President" could not be referring to THE PRESIDENT. It doesn't make sense as an argument to say it couldn't. The only thing that is clear, is that Ocelot was working for the Patriots, not that he explicitly spoke to a full member, though Johnson could be considered a member of sorts, since he himself is working for them, despite being a figurehead. Anyway, the corresponding articles no longer state definitively that it was him, so there shouldn't be a problem now. --Bluerock 08:11, May 26, 2010 (UTC) ::Yes, and besides, whose to say that Johnson can't do a thing just because he's a Pawn? It's very likely, if not what was intended, that President Johnson may have organized the whole heist/retrieval under the Patriot's orders. I also doubt that Ocelot was talking to Major Zero when making the call. If he couldn't contact Solidus Snake due to his being in hiding, I kinda doubt Ocelot could contact Zero due to similar reasons. Not to mention Zero was either a Vegetable or coming closer to becoming one. I also doubt he was talking to JD since, technically, JD can't be called "Mr. President" due to JD not having a gender, never mind a masculine gender. Assuming he's acting under Patriot's orders, I'm pretty sure he'd see Johnson as a fellow Patriot. We already know that most of his presidency was what the Patriot's commanded. Whose to say that The Patriots didn't also tell him to organize the Tanker Heist in secret? Weedle McHairybug 20:15, May 26, 2010 (UTC) :::You're also the same person who thinks that the B&B girls survived, that Liquid really possessed Ocelot and that EVA knew that Ocelot was faking it. The Patriots were the real rulers of the country, hence, Mister President. It's never even implied that Johnson was involved. Get over it. -- 20:19, May 26, 2010 (UTC) No, it's implied to be the President, hence, Mister President. --Bluerock 20:20, May 26, 2010 (UTC) ::::Wrong, the Patriots were the real rulers, hence, Mister President. -- 20:21, May 26, 2010 (UTC) ::::::This is fucking retarded - Marcaurelix :::::::You're a pendejo. -- 20:24, May 26, 2010 (UTC) :Uh yeah, Unknown, everyone knows the Patriots are the real rulers. Doesn't mean he isn't speaking to Johnson in the slightest. --Bluerock 20:24, May 26, 2010 (UTC) ::Uh yeah, doesn't mean he was speaking to Johnson either. Anyway, the AIs had the ability to mimic genders. It impersonated Campbell and Rosemary. -- 20:25, May 26, 2010 (UTC) :The game implies its the President, so that's why its in the article. Ultimately, it says its unknown, which is in fact, the point you are arguing. --Bluerock 20:27, May 26, 2010 (UTC) ::No, it implies that it's The Patriots. That's a fact. -- 20 ::28, May 26, 2010 (UTC) :It is no fact. It is unknown. His dialogue suggests it is the president. --Bluerock 20:30, May 26, 2010 (UTC) ::No, it suggests that he was talking to The Patriots. Sorry! -- 20:31, May 26, 2010 (UTC) :Johnson is a Patriot, he is a pawn under their orders. --Bluerock 20:33, May 26, 2010 (UTC) ::No, he's not a Patriot. The real Patriots were the founders and the AIs. Try again. -- 20:34, May 26, 2010 (UTC) :The Patriots are not just the five founders, or the AIs, operating completely independently, they run an entire organization. --Bluerock 20:35, May 26, 2010 (UTC) ::Doesn't matter. It's still never implied that Johnson was the guy Ocelot was talking to or that he had any part in the Tanker incident.-- 20:37, May 26, 2010 (UTC) :::I don't understand your problem with the text. It doesn't insinate anything; it isn't in favor of the Patriots or Johnson - Marcaurelix :And, I don't understand why Anonymous can't accept that it may have been Johnson. He calls him "Mr President" for God's sake, an argument that Anonymous has bizarrely used for himself. Anyone, listening to that dialogue would assume it to be the President, that's why he's mentioned as a possibility in the article, rather than having no mention at all. --Bluerock 20:44, May 26, 2010 (UTC) ::Yes, but then it's later revealed that The Patriots are the real rulers. It's called a red herring. -- 20:49, May 26, 2010 (UTC) ::I don't understand your problem with the text. It doesn't insinate anything; it isn't in favor of the Patriots or Johnson - Marcaurelix :::Then you shouldn't have a problem with not having it in there either.-- 20:49, May 26, 2010 (UTC) :Once again, doesn't change a thing, why can't you accept he may be reporting to the Patriots via Johnson. The Patriots involvement is NOT in question, yet you seem to think it is. --Bluerock 20:53, May 26, 2010 (UTC) ::You still haven't answered our questions? - Marcaurelix :::I already did, silly. Nothing in the game proves that it was Johnson. -- 21:10, May 26, 2010 (UTC) :And again, nothing disproves it. Try again. --Bluerock 21:12, May 26, 2010 (UTC) ::Besides, Ocelot saying Mr President is actually an argument against you - Marcuarelix :::But again, the game proved that Johnson was not involved and that it was only the Patriots. Try again. And they were the real rulers, not Johnson, hence, Mr President. Try again. -- 21:14, May 26, 2010 (UTC) :So, you think Mr President could in no way possibly refer to, oh I dont know, THE PRESIDENT! Try again. --Bluerock 21:16, May 26, 2010 (UTC) ::No, because he was NOT the real ruler. The Patriots were. Johnson pointed that out. Try again.-- 21:17, May 26, 2010 (UTC) Dude, nothing in the game proves that Johnson wasn’t involved. - Marcaurelix :He doesn't need to speak to the ruler. That is your assumption, Anonymous. Try again. --Bluerock 21:21, May 26, 2010 (UTC) :Either you are lying or someone is confused, but nothing in the game confirms or denies his involvmente - Marcarulix ::Sorry, the game proves that he had nothing to do with it. It was only Ocelot The Patriots. Johnson pointed that out. And of course Ocelot had to speak to the rulers, they were involved, not Johnson. And yes Peter, I will never reveal my real name. Try again. -- 21:25, May 26, 2010 (UTC) :::Give me the fucking proof - Marcaurelix ::::Give me the fucking proof that Johnson was involved. -- 21:29, May 26, 2010 (UTC) :::::You claim that the games proved his non-involvment. Give me the proof - Marcaurelix ::::::I already did, moron. Can't you read? -- 21:31, May 26, 2010 (UTC) :There is none either way, you dumbass. It is unknown. U-N-K-N-O-W-N. And, frankly, I couldn't give a damn about your name. Trolls like to remain anonymous. --21:33, May 26, 2010 (UTC) What proof? Give me the proof - Marcaurelix Bluerock, he claimes to have proof. Give me the proof - Marcaurelix Yep, you can't read or spell. That's very sad. And wow, Peter. You use such foul language. Are you frustrated about something? HA! HA!-- 21:37, May 26, 2010 (UTC) Mr. President =/= President Johnson. Is that your proof? This isn't proof. Your a lier. - Marcaurelix :Yep he's a liar. Here is the President's dialogue in MGS2: :"What you saw was Metal Gear RAY -- hijacked two years ago from the Marines by Ocelot. That was not the new Metal Gear." :Ocelot did steal it. That's all he said. :And Anonymous, my words are nothing compared to what's spewed from your mouth since you've been editing here, troll. --Bluerock 21:42, May 26, 2010 (UTC) ::Yet he never said that he had anything to do with the incident. Therefore, you're sadly wrong. And learn how to spell, Marcaurelix. Finally, I can care less what you think of me, Gorman. -- 21:45, May 26, 2010 (UTC) :::Mr. President =/= President Johnson. Is that your proof? This isn't proof. Your a liar, grammar nazi. - Marcaurelix :Of course you care, Anonymous, or you wouldn't have asked. And no, Johnson doesn't say that he did anything, but IF he is just a middlemen, then that's essentially true, he just recieved Ocelot's report to pass on to his superiors/AIs/whatever. So your assertion that you had proof was bullshit, yeah? --Bluerock 21:50, May 26, 2010 (UTC) ::No, I really don't care. You obviously care because you are cursing like a girl on her period. You have no proof that he was the guy Ocelot was talking to so you invent ridiculous speculation. If Johnson was involved, he would have said something. He didn't so you are wrong. Get over it, Gorman. -- 21:57, May 26, 2010 (UTC) ::We're calling you out on your bullshit, grammar nazi - Marcaurelix ::LOL, you originally spelled it "grammer nazi". Nice try in regards to correcting it you moron. You call me a grammer nazi yet you suck at spelling you stupid racist Spaniard. I call you on your bullshit.-- 21:53, May 26, 2010 (UTC) :::Since you have a problem with my English, how about this: Aun estoy esperando tu argumento, puto mentiroso - Marcaurelix :::::Ya te dije lo que querías saber, tu maricon cabron-- 21:59, May 26, 2010 (UTC) :He can't give us an answer, so he pathetically rambles on about spelling. Who cares, its perfectly understandable unless you're Anonymous of course. And he's the last person to be calling anyone a racist, ain't that right Anonymous? Showing your true colors again. And I thought you'd finally reformed. But that's what always happens when your point of view is questioned. --Bluerock 22:01, May 26, 2010 (UTC) ::LOL, repeatedly saying the word "anonymous" is not going to work. And I'm not a racist. :"lo que querías saber" - forgot the S dumbass - Marcaurelix :*Ya te dije. ::Now who's changing the spelling? BTW I think you mean "Ya te LO dije" - Marcaurelix :::How else am I gonna refer to you, Anonymous? You say you're not racist, yet you make fun of people's skin color and disabilities (you know what I'm talking about). That's pretty damn low, if ya ask me. --Bluerock 22:12, May 26, 2010 (UTC) I'm not an expert when it comes to writing in Spanish. I do know how to read it and can understand it when it's spoken. My parents speak spanish all the time. You win in regards to Spanish. -- 22:13, May 26, 2010 (UTC) :Fair enough, but don't insult my English, please - Marcaurelix ::Don't call me a male whore either. I know spanish insults too. You said "I wait for your argument, you fucking male whore". LOL, pretty rude.-- 22:21, May 26, 2010 (UTC) What the fuck are you talking about? I have NEVER insulted anyone over their skin color. And insulting disabilities is irrelevant. Get your facts straight before calling me a racist, moron. -- 22:14, May 26, 2010 (UTC) :Uh, how about Fantomas. You disagreed with him so you searched for his pic on facebook, like the creepy stalker you are, so could insult him some more. And insulting disabilities is just as bad, you should know better. --Bluerock 22:18, May 26, 2010 (UTC) Prez Normally, when Ocelot call somebody at the end of MGS, Johnson is not president. It's George Sears (or this predecessor), and "President" can be code name equally. When Raiden is going to save Johnson, under this live indicator, we can see "PREZ". It's can't be abbreviation of "preSident" (because is not "prezident") so we must indicate this and in "also known as" this name of "Prez". :It is an abbreviation, but it is spelled phonetically. Many English speakers pronounce it as "prezident." --Bluerock (talk) 17:35, October 30, 2014 (UTC) Retconned? Okay, a hidden ending for Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain has been uploaded, and, well, there's some problems it poses. Namely, one of the quotes in the ending not only was given by Barack Obama in 2009, but was even explicitly attributed to him on that date. That's going to imply that Obama was the actual president in the 2009s in the Metal Gear series, and not James Johnson. We might even have to go as far as to claim he's utterly non-canon as a result of this. Here's the ending, for those who are curious: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxoT0xlRCfY And the quotation appears at 6:13. Jeez, Kojima, why did you HAVE to attribute Obama to this at the expense of the chronological timeline?! Weedle McHairybug (talk) 13:13, September 15, 2015 (UTC) :Kojima had to attribute that quote to him because he said it. Otherwise it's a case of false attribution which would be kind of disrespectful, and quotes sometimes come with dates. He never states anything about Obama replacing Johnson in the canon, so I don't know why you'd get so up in arms about it as if it did. Fictional works having non-fictional quotes alongside them is nothing new. Occam's razor suggest that Johnson was still president during 2009 in the canon, and literally nothing suggests otherwise. Weedle, how many times are we going to have this discussion about you overblowing tiny details way out of proportion? --Fantomas (talk) 13:57, September 15, 2015 (UTC) ::I said the same thing about the number of nuclear warheads being mentioned. It's just a case of real life information that has nothing to do with the Metal Gear Universe. Barack Obama's quote is further proof of that. And yeah, Johnson is canon. The ending timeline even mentions the Big Shell Incident. -- 14:03, September 15, 2015 (UTC) :::The Big Shell Incident is mentioned, yes. But then again, Outer Heaven and Zanzibar Land are also mentioned as well, yet most of those events actually ARE heavily retconned, so we can't be sure that, just because the Big Shell Incident is mentioned, that means Johnson still exists. And for the record, if you're going to attribute a quote to a real life figure that doesn't even exist in that universe, you HAVE to use the closest analogue specifically to AVOID complications regarding the timeline. And most fictional works often use non-fictional quotes specifically to make it seem a lot more real than it actually is, to create believability, that's actually why Obama replacing Johnson is a very serious problem and a likely retcon. :::As far as the bit about MGS1, they wouldn't have even bothered mentioning that tidbit if it wasn't going to be in-universe. If they really had to mention it somewhere without implying that it is actually tied to the events of the game in any way, try after even Ocelot's call to make as clear as day that it's not tied to the game at all, or possibly right before the opening of the game, like how the whole "this is a fictional work" message was shown in MGS2 and MGSV:TPP. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 14:17, September 15, 2015 (UTC) ::::No, Weedle, even wholly fictional works (like, not even set in our universe, fictional) can feature real world quotes that have no bearing on the story. Quotes are usually included because they're thematically relevant, not because they're meant to be included as part of the story. It's not a retcon. Get over it. --Fantomas (talk) 14:20, September 15, 2015 (UTC) :::::Not when they're actually still part of the actual events of the story. Now, a foreward, yes, that's allowed to feature real life information not directly relevant to the events of the story. But this is definitely not a foreward. A foreward or afterthought would be placed AFTER the Credits, and by after the credits, I mean after even the post-credits speech, just to make sure the viewer got that it is not actually part of the events of the story. :It's not a retcon. It's just a quote. Get over it. --Fantomas (talk) 14:28, September 15, 2015 (UTC)